The raid change announcement is welcomed news around here. I have long despised the fact that 25 man raids get better loot than 10 mans. For me it never made sense but my argument has always fallen on deaf ears. For the time being at least it looks as though my raiding prayers have been answered.
With 10′s and 25′s sharing lockouts and gear I believe we might see a dramatic shift in the way guilds approach raiding. Today the only way to get the “top level gear” is to run 25′s. In Cataclysm the loot will be exactly the same for both raid sizes. Sure 25′s will drop more loot but in 10′s there will be less competition for the drops. There will no longer be a substantial benefit to a 25 man raid.
Does this mean the end for large guilds? To be honest I don’t think so. I think that there will still be large guilds based on the previously announced guild benefits in Cataclysm. The change will be most visible in the raiding structure. Instead of mobilizing and organizing one big group, there will be multiple smaller groups running content. Just about any successful 25 man raiding guild could easily fill three 10 man groups. Prior to Cataclysm there was a penalty for doing so, that will no longer be an issue.
It looks like I am not the only one excited by these changes. John over at Big Bear Butt seems to be down right giddy about the news if you ask me, as you can tell I share his enthusiasm. Matticus is feeling a bit apprehensive about the situation. He has concern for 25′s and I think rightly so. This news is perfect for those of us with multiple alts, limited schedules or low idiot tolerance levels. I could easily see myself running my Boomkin in one raid and my Disc Priest in another. Good times are coming friends, good times are coming.
The concern I have is that there’s not “much” of an apparent incentive for doing 25s now. I remember when raids dropped from 40 to 25, and I felt much as you do now. That it would mean larger guilds would have 2 25 man groups.
It didn’t.
Guilds restructured, and their core raiders became 25 instead of 10.
I think in the long term, it’s going to have a similar effect here. Which is bothersome to me for a variety of reasons.
For starters, the reason we as a guild stopped doing dedicated “guild” 10 mans, is because every time you run more than one 10 man… people get pissed about not being in the “good group”. And it doesn’t matter how you shuffle groups to try to make things as fair as possible… People end up bitching in the end.
“Yeah but I wasn’t in Khaas’s group this week so no fair!”
“Ok, I was in Khaas’s group but we didn’t get Tribute to Insanity. No fair!”
Multiple 10 mans = drama powder keg. Also, I feel that 10 mans magnify the need for certain classes/abilities in a way that I thought Blizzard was trying to avoid. It becomes, bring the class not the player. With so few slots to fill, you end up with a checklist:
Healers
Need 3, 1 with a DPS offspec (preferably ranged offspec).
Tanks
Need 2, 1 with a DPS offspec.
5 DPS
What we end up with here, is a harder sell for classes like Shadow Priests, Boomkins, etc.
People are going to want Bloodlust, they’re going to want a table, and all of the buffs, as well as a battle rez. But since they’re trying to do away with multiple BR in a single encounter, you only need one druid.
In essence… I’m concerned.
I’m not going to cry foul yet, I’m just concerned.
All I think any of us can say for sure at this point, is that raid dynamics are going to be changing drastically in Cataclysm. Let’s hope it’s for the best.
Raid dynamics and Guild dynamics are changing. They are both changing in a way that can’t be covered here. Key an eye out for tomorrows post.
It seems that most people do not read the blue posts very well, if at all.
The benefit for 25s in cata is that they will drop more loot and badges (points) PER CAPITA than 10s. For example, if the 10 man version of a boss drops 2 pieces of loot and 2 badges the 25 man version may drop 7 pieces of loot and 3 badges, more loot and more badges per person in 25 mans.
I personally think that most good raiders will get into a nice 10 man team with other quality players and not mind less loot per person because they progress quickly and have an easy time organizing.
At the same time I expect that many “failplayers” will continue to insist that 25 mans are the only “real” raids and that you are not a “real” or “serious” raider if you run 10 mans. They will loudly proclaim how fail everyone else is for wasting their lockout on a lowly 10 man raid. So they will attempt to organize 25 man raids but will not progress very far due not only to not only their own level of fail but also due to the fact that most quality players will be saved in 10 mans. After failing to progress they will go to the forms and complain about the people in 10 mans are getting their gear in “easy mode” and how its not fair and how the obvious solution is to nerf …something. When you read this on the forums halfway through cata, think of this post.
And Khaas, tell them to suck it up. You (even as a guild leader) are not obligated to carry people through content nor is anyone else in your group. You set the groups in whatever way you see best and if people want to look at it like a race or some competition then most likely one team is going to be winning. That’s just the way it works. They can either be happy with their progression or they can put in a greater effort, whatever that may be. I strongly believe that there should be an “A” team and that people shouldn’t be swapped out. If people don’t want to work and improve and can’t handle that someone progressed faster then they did, then maybe raiding isn’t the best environment for them.
This is my first time commenting here although I have been reading the blog since last year. I really enjoy the blog and love that there is a new post almost everyday. Thanks.
@ Max – Great comment, thanks for hanging out with me for the last year! There will be more on this subject in tomorrows post!